I'd love to hear a genuine counter argument. Not to say I hated him, but my opinion didn't really change from meh. So with both supposedly working out for 7 years, Tien was stronger than 17, despite being weaker than 17 prior to those 7 years. This was the reason why I could never take 17's accomplishments seriously. So far I've only gotten one, and his argument was that 17 almost died, which. But he did contribute a lot in the show. This isn't even mentioning that there's no mention of 17 training, nor does he have any reason to train.
I'd also argue that Vegeta did more against Jiren than 17 did, given that 17 got one hit off on Jiren while Vegeta got several. And in this case, that's Goku. Everyone was vital to anizilas defeat, Goku and Vegeta both inflicted damage on jiren, substantially more than 17 did, Goku and Vegeta also had a number of saves hell, I think frieza has more saves. I thought he was kinda boring in Z, so I wasn't expecting much from him in Super. And despite what Gohan does, you can train and take care of your family. The jarring power scaling issue constantly distracted me from noticing his feats.
Remember in the show when vegeta goes blue against golden frieza? As he said, he did more than sit on his ass for years. Also, 17 started as a human in fact they're called modified humans and Toriyama himself said years before Super that Androids 17 and 18 can become stronger through training. Someone as strong as he was having never trained. In the movie the arc was based on, Frieza didn't even have a training partner. And then in the 5 years after that, despite both still training nonstop, 17 became a god while Tien stayed about the same.
Instead of just downvoting, would you instead care to actually have a discussion as to why you think 17 is the most valuable person on universe 7's team, even ahead of Goku who was the only person able to weaken Jiren, or beat Kefla and who had more eliminations than anyone else on the team? And also yeah, his power jump was ridiculous. Training with Gohan so basically by himself in the hyperbolic time chamber. But honestly, that doesn't bother me. It isn't like Buu could lock onto his ki since he's an android and not even Goku could sense 17. He has a wife, 3 kids, and a job, so where is he even finding this time to train and why is he doing it? I always thought vegeta unlocked the power on his own by training with whis.
Which is why I wasn't really excited by his feats and so much focus being put on him in super. His fight with Kakunsa best Kamikaze Fireball girl was cool, his final blow on Anilaza was epic, and him sacrificing himself to save Goku and Vegeta actually made feel a little sad. I guess those last 5 years really made all the difference then? That and he had reason to train since he got eating by a bug when he thought he was hot shit. Keep in mind that Goku was training with the strongest fighters in otherworld, and fought Buu, and then trained on king Kai's planet more 10x gravity compared to earth , and trained with Vegeta, and then underwent a magic ritual to gain more power, and trained with whis, and that got him to super Saiyan blue, which he needed to get to in order to match 17's strength. And keep in mind that Frieza who started out weaker than 17 went the level of the gods in just four months of grinding.
However, when I saw 17 on the roster, I just shrugged. But then he came in completely subverted my expectations by having some of my favorite moments in the entire Tournament. D Toppo, who dismissed 17 and humiliated Frieza. The person that contributed the most, that was instrumental to victory. Or the scene where he met Marron for the first time. Keep in mind that in the cell saga it only took goku a year to surpass 17.
Keep in mind that Tien didn't die from that attack. And also had more eliminations than 17. We also don't know if 17 died in the human extinction attack. Like that scene where he stopped Katopesla from attacking 18. You fight poachers on a secluded island for 7 years and suddenly you can take on god level beings? Then Vegeta for taking out G. Even frieza had someone training him. I never really got why he was so popular that he got 3 arcs centered around him.
I personally didn't care for 17 at all, even in the top. Frieza trained with Tagoma who was more or less a random lackey and that was only in Super. This is also backed up by the manga where Vegeta underwent the ritual. You don't need to train heavens or with Whis to get stronger. Goku did more against Jiren.
Android saga, super 17, and now top. Goku says vegeta got that power all on his own while he had to get the help of others. Even 17s feats arent unique to him. Where was he in the Buu saga? Do you see how this doesn't make sense? Keep in mind that 17, just training on his own, though whatever nonsense he was training with, surpassed the level of gods, while Goku literally needed a ritual and to train with an angel. .